《我的靈魂是愛做的》──台灣導演陳敏郎專訪

《我的靈魂是愛做的》主角凱文與他的母親(劇照提供:海鵬影業/經許可使用)

今年五月,台灣剛剛通過相關法案,成為亞洲第一個「婚姻平權」的國家;而今,一部甫獲金馬肯定的檔期電影,也在測試台灣社會對於同志的接納程度。

我的靈魂是愛做的》是陳敏郎所執導的一部劇情長片,上月剛剛在華語世界最為盛大、歷史也最悠久的金馬盛典上奪得了一座獎項;而它所講述的故事,是關於一位身為同志的年輕教師,夾在家人、愛人和同事之間,嘗試出櫃、尋求接納的種種掙扎。這是陳敏郎的第二部長片,預計將在 12 月 6 日正式上映。這位台灣導演出生於 1970 年,在移居〔美國〕、前往紐約大學修讀電影之前,曾在台灣服役、並以中尉身分退役;2013 年,他推出了畢業後的首部劇情長片《你的今天和我的明天》,其講述的便是一個來自台灣的移民,在紐約這座城市的背景之下,找尋自我、探索性向的故事

陳敏郎導演目前長住紐約,但仍經常往來兩地之間;本次也是在為新片首映回台之際,接受了筆者的專訪。

Filip Noubel(FN):是什麼讓你會想要去拍《我的靈魂是愛做的》這樣一部電影?

Ming Lang Chen: My initial idea was to make a movie about a gay couple in which one is HIV positive, and the other isn't. Eventually, the story evolved, and I decided to make the movie in Taiwan. The main plot follows Kevin, a 26-year-old high school teacher who teaches civic education in Taiwan. He falls in love with another man, and discovers two things about him later: That this man is married to a woman and that he is HIV positive. Kevin is thus faced with a number of challenges: He has to face his own mother with whom he still lives and with whom he talks about the man he loves; then there is the fear of AIDS, and finally he also needs to face his lover's wife. On top of that, someone spreads a rumor at his school that he is HIV positive. The school then tries to force him to resign, as it is illegal to fire someone based on their HIV status in Taiwan. So the main theme is really how one faces pressure at a rather young age. The Teacher is about human communication, it shows a wide range of delicate emotions, I wouldn't say it is just a gay movie.

陳敏郎:我本來是想要拍一部同志電影,裡面的同志伴侶一個是愛滋帶原者、一個不是。但是後來這個故事就慢慢長成了現在的樣子;我也決定了,要在台灣來拍攝這部電影。凱文是故事的主線:他二十六歲、在高中教公民,還愛上了一個男人;但是後來他發現:這個人不但已經有老婆了,並且還是愛滋帶原者。所以,凱文就陷入了一連串的苦惱之中:他要面對同住的母親、嘗試談論他所愛上的這個男人;他要面對自己對愛滋的恐懼;最後,他還要面對他愛人的老婆。更糟糕的是,有人在他任教的學校裡散布謠言,說他是愛滋帶原者;依照台灣的法律,是不可以用這個理由把人給解僱的,於是校方就希望可以逼他自己離職。所以這部片想要呈現的主題,實際上是:一個年輕人面對來自各方的壓力,要如何自處?我不會說《我的靈魂是愛做的》只是一部同志電影;它想探討的其實是人與人之間的交流,它也有很多細緻的情感在裡面。

FN:你覺得這部電影為什麼能在本屆金馬獎脫穎而出?

MLC: Taiwan is very friendly towards LGBT film production. Every year the the Golden Horse Award, which started in 1962, has at least one or two LGBT-themed movies competing for an award. In 1993, the gay-themed movie Wedding Banquet by Taiwanese and now global filmmaker Ang Lee won the award for best feature film. In 2003, a serial adaptation of Crystal Boys (孽子), inspired the groundbreaking gay novel of the same name by Taiwanese gay author Pai Hsien-yung  (白先勇) won the Golden Bell Awards.

As for Winnie Chang, who plays the wife in my film, I believe she won the Best Supporting Actress Award because, even though there are very few scenes involving her, she represents the many layers of this typical situation when gay men marry women out of social and family pressure. She finds herself in a love triangle that was not her choice and is exposed to a lot of pressure. She married into a big family, has to keep up appearances, wants a child and is pressured by her in-laws to do so. Yet she remains tolerant and humane.

陳敏郎:以同志電影的製作來說,台灣的環境還是滿友善的;每一年,在金馬獎的入圍名單裡面,大概都會有一到兩部同志電影。金馬獎是在 1962 年就有了;1993 年,金馬獎的最佳劇情片,就是頒給了以同志為核心而展開的電影《囍宴》,那是台灣導演李安的片子,他現在也是世界級的導演了。那麼在 2003 年的時候呢,《孽子》也得到了金鐘獎;那部電視劇的原著小說,就是台灣同志作家白先勇寫的,本身就是一部很有開創性的小說。

張詩盈在這部電影裡面,飾演的就是這個妻子的角色;雖然說戲分不是很多,但男同志在社會/家庭壓力之下勉強找個人結婚是很常見的事,張詩盈把這個角色發揮得很有層次,我相信這是她能得到最佳女配角的原因。這個妻子發現自己被迫要面對一個三角習題,同時也承受了很多的壓力──因為她嫁進了一個大家庭,不得不繼續維持這個假面婚姻;她想要個孩子,公婆在這方面也給了她不小的壓力。但無論如何,她還是努力地去包容〔她的丈夫〕、用一種比較有人味的方式〔去面對這整個狀況〕。

以本片榮獲金馬獎最佳女配角的張詩盈(劇照提供:海鵬影業/經許可使用)

FN:人家常說,台灣是東亞同志人權的燈塔。你覺得台灣人對於同志,是不是普遍都比較包容?

MLC:  In the capital Taipei, we live in a very open space, we have a large Gay Pride Parade, and so we tend to think that being gay is no big deal. But we need to get outside of this bubble and see what is really happening in society. Because yes, Taiwan is a democracy, but a very young one, just in its early 30s. This is why I chose a main character who is just under 30. I wanted to see what this generation is experiencing, as they are the first to grow in a post-martial law society.

This is why the movie will be distributed across Taiwan in 16 commercial movie theaters. We didn't want to go big and end up with half-empty movie theater rooms. This is an art movie, quite different from Taiwanese mainstream movies that are heavily influenced by the storytelling of TV series. Our hope is that word of mouth will convince audiences who are into indie movies to come and appreciate The Teacher.

陳敏郎:台北作為首善之都,當然是相對開放的──我們有大型的同志遊行;對於同志,我們通常也不覺得有什麼大不了的。但是我們還是需要突破同溫層,好好去看看社會的現實面,因為──沒錯,台灣是個民主國家,但台灣的民主相對年輕、才三十出頭歲。這也就是為什麼,我會選擇用一個不到三十的主角〔來講這個故事〕──我想要看看,這一代的人都經歷了些什麼,因為他們是第一個完全沒有經歷過戒嚴時期的世代。

而這也是為什麼,全台灣你只有在 16 家戲院可以看到這部電影;我們不想要把目標放得太高,然後每場都只是坐個半滿。《我的靈魂是愛做的》是一部藝術電影,那台灣一般的電影就比較像電視劇一點,所以我們是比較希望用口耳相傳的方式,讓喜歡獨立電影的人可以一起走進戲院、好好來欣賞這部電影。

導演陳敏郎(右)、主角邱志宇 (左)在桃園首映會上與影迷合照(攝影:Filip Noubel/經許可使用)

FN:那麼現在在台灣,比較反同的都是哪些人呢?

MLC: The strongest opposition comes from certain members of religious groups, and mostly Christian people. They have money, are influenced by groups outside of Taiwan, and have a blind belief that homosexuality is wrong, even though the Bible doesn't say that. But there is also another factor: our Asian traditions that keep any talk about homosexuality hush hush. The result is that very few people come out, so people don’t get to see or know a gay person in their immediate circles.That's what I wanted to achieve with Kevin; to introduce a person who looks like a neighbour so people can look at his dilemma and say: “I know him!”.

I couldn't imagine that I would see marriage-equality happen in Taiwan, and we have to thank people like Chi Chia-wei who were brave enough to come out publicly. I never felt prouder to be a Taiwanese than the day we passed the marriage equality law.

陳敏郎:比較反同的,還是一些宗教人士,大部分都是基督徒;他們經濟上比較寬裕、接觸到的外來影響多,然後他們認定同性相戀就是錯的,也不管聖經上到底有沒有這樣講。但是我們的傳統思維也是有一定的影響:在亞洲,一般就認為同性戀不是什麼可以攤開來講的事情,所以很少有人願意出櫃,大家也沒什麼機會真正去接觸到、或者去認識到同志族群。所以我希望藉著「凱文」這個角色,讓大家可以看到一個跟你的鄰居看起來沒什麼不一樣的同志,看著他經歷所有的事情,然後能夠〔發自內心地〕說一句:「我懂!」

我真的沒有想過,可以在台灣看到婚姻平權的實現;這真的要感謝像祁家威這樣,能夠這麼勇敢地公開出櫃的人。同婚法通過的那天,我真的從來沒有過,像這樣覺得自己身為台灣人,是這麼值得驕傲的一件事。


譯者:洪晨瑋

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